An evening with Mr PR Ramesh
Introduction
On Friday, June 27, we had an engaging session by Mr PR Ramesh. A chartered accountant by training, he is an Independent Director at many reputed companies (Nestlé, L&T, Cipla, Air India). He is former Chairman, Deloitte India and has been nominated to the Hall of Fame – Accounting in India 2025.
Times of rapid change
Mr Ramesh began by referring to the rapid pace of change. According to futurist Ray Kurzweil, we will experience 20,000 years of technological change over the next 100 years. That is 200 years of change compressed into each year.
In 1956, a 5 MB storage device was the size of two refrigerators. Even as late as 1980, the world's first 1GB hard drive was the size of one refrigerator. Today we can store one terabyte in a tiny strip in a small memory card.
It's a connected, fast-paced world driven by technology and data. The volumes of data which are produced in one day maybe several times more than generated from the inception of mankind till the previous day.
The developments in sensors, connectivity etc, have blurred the distinction between physical and digital, humans and machines. Indeed, everything is getting blurred due to the congruence of the digital world, the physical world and the biological world.
And then we have the rise of AI. Consider Google’s “Talk to books”. It responds by reading 120,000 books in half a second. AI can also pick us out from a crowd today. It can read our lips and understand our feelings.
There are also societal changes. For example, the expectations of millennials are very different. They sleep with the phone. They breathe with the phone. As soon as they finish jogging, they take a selfie and update their status on Facebook. The celebration is more important than the exercise!
In this disruptive world, organizations, which were once giants, have disappeared. We don't know whether Google is a competitor for Toyota or whether a Tesla car is a computer on wheels or whether it is a car with a computer.
The term VUCA (Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, Ambiguous) is in a way outdated. We now refer to the BANI world which stands for brittle, anxious, nonlinear, incomprehensible.
There are many interesting predictions. Petrol gas stations will go away as electric cars capture the market in the next 10 years. About 40% of Fortune 500 companies will be gone. Stanford researchers predict that there would be 500 billion connected devices, a huge multiple of the world's population itself, and 3 billion new minds will join the internet in the next 5 years.
On the need for introspection and self-awareness
We must introspect to understand what has contributed to our success. What contributed to our success in the past is not going to contribute to our success in future. We must ask ourselves: Did we succeed because we were in the right place at the right time? Was it a stroke of luck? How vulnerable are we? Are there gaps in our skill sets with the way the world is changing?
We tend to externalize blame if we are not successful. We start discounting all the negative results. But we need not be defensive about failures. Setbacks can happen to anyone. Failure is not falling but failing to get up after falling down.
Self-awareness is important. We should not have a bloated self-impression. For Mr Ramesh, birthdays are days of introspection. One more year has gone by. Have we changed in that one year? Have we moved ahead? What have we achieved? What are we known in the marketplace for? How do our colleagues perceive us? What recognition have we achieved? Who are our followers? Are we able to attract talent? Do people recognize us and come to us? We should look in the mirror and ask these questions. If the answer to most of these questions is no, we need to start taking corrective action.
On building a personal brand
How do we build our personal brand? We should be known for something. We should be able to define our identity.
Both technical excellence and leadership are important. Mr Ramesh didn’t give up technical excellence. Even today he is involved in the drafting of technical standards.
Knowledge is part of our personal brand. So continuous learning is important. For Mr Ramesh, Kindle is a handy tool as he can keep many books with him when he is travelling.
On the need to innovate
We can't be static in today's world. if we continue to do what we do today we will not be successful in future. As Albert Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
Look at how the actor Amitabh Bachchan has changed from where he was to when we see him today in Kaun Banega Krorepati at this advanced age. Look at the career changes he has made. Look at how he's continued to earn respect.
On being relevant
So, the key issue is how will we be relevant. We must keep asking ourselves daily: Why we are wanted? Are we relevant? Organizations may change the positions we hold today and we may not be needed. We may not be replaced by a robot. But we may be replaced by someone who understands the robots.
On recognizing signals
In his book, How will you measure your life? Professor Clayton Christensen reflects on his class in Harvard. We all know that Harvard attracts the best minds. Some of Prof Christensen’s classmates became Fortune 500 CEOs and some ended up in in jail. All got the best input. But why did some succeed and some fail in life? If we do not read the tea leaves or do not smell the coffee brewing, i.e. if we do not recognize signals and start coping with change, we will end up in the Jurassic Park of professionals.
On career planning
Our career is like a limited overs cricket match. The first few overs do not indicate how the game will end. Similarly, we need to plan the remaining part of our career even while we are in the initial period. We may start in a great organization with a good salary. That's irrelevant. It's about where will we be in that organization in the future. So, it is working on the second part of the game while still playing the first part of the game.
It is also about proactively looking for opportunities. Mr Ramesh has moved across the country and indeed the world. It would have been great to stay in Hyderabad in his comfort zone with his family. But if we want to succeed, we should be mobile and seek opportunities rather than wait for the shower of opportunities to fall where we are.
To be successful in our career, we also need great soft skills, great communication skills and most importantly personal values like empathy, humility etc. We should understand how others view us. We should start looking into the mirror and this is critical.
On the difference between time and experience
People almost always tend to confuse time with experience. They claim they have 39 years of experience. But experience is what we have achieved and earned. Each time we do something we must improve. For example, a marathon runner tries to reduce the time taken to reach destination, each time.
On how to survive in this fast-changing world
The famous writer, Thomas Friedman was once asked what people should do to survive in this fast-changing world. He talked about the following.
Behave like an immigrant: Say we are immigrants from Syria or Lebanon. When we reach Europe, we are in a new geography with a new language, new food habits, new weather. Everything is new. All that we did in the past is irrelevant. And that's why continuous learning is important.
Think like an artisan: If we are the same as everybody else, we will be displaced along with everybody else. We go to a doctor because he has that personal touch. He's different from others. So, we need to think like an artisan.
Always be in beta mode: We can never be in production mode because of the fast-changing world.
PQ + CQ > IQ: Mr Ramesh has modified it as: PQ + CQ +EQ + HQ > IQ.
PQ means passion quotient. We need to have passion. If we have no passion, we have no future. CQ is curiosity quotient. In a fast-changing technology world, curiosity is critical. EQ is the emotional quotient. HQ is human quotient. We are humans and not robots.
On leadership
There are different types of leaders. knowledge leader, principal centered leader, servant leader, charismatic leader, visionary leader.
But leadership is not a position or title. People say they got promoted or didn't get promoted. We get a title through a promotion. But we do not become a leader. Some call themselves vice president. Maybe they have many vices!
How do people emerge as leaders? It is because of:
- Character: who they are.
- Relationships: who they know.
- Knowledge: what they know.
- Intuition: what they feel.
- Experience: where they have been.
- Success: what they have done.
- Ability: what they do.
A leader should have all these attributes.
Respect is earned and not demanded. Respect is earned by building trust. We should display transparency in actions, owning failures. We must lead by example and walk the talk.
When people respect us as a person, they admire us. When they respect us as a friend, they love us. When they respect us as a leader, they follow us. And we must make sacrifices. Think of Nelson Mandela.
The four Hs
Health: We can have all the knowledge or wealth in the world. But if we don’t have health, the wealth or knowledge will amount to nothing.
Honesty: We should maintain the highest standards of integrity even when there is no oversight. For example, we should not use the office printer for doing our personal work.
Hunger: We should have hunger for success, for knowledge and to execute. Without hunger we can never be a successful person.
Human: And to be a successful person, we must also be human. We must be humble, cheerful, show concern for our colleagues, be benevolent, and have control over our emotions. We should be grateful. As they say we make a living by what we earn. We make a life by what we give. So, we must give.
Mr Ramesh cited the example of Michael G. May who was blinded by a chemical explosion at the age of three. He regained partial vision in 2000, at the age of 46, after cornea transplants and a pioneering surgery by San Francisco ophthalmologist Daniel Goodman. Among his many accomplishments, May holds the record for downhill skiing by a person who is completely blind (racing at 65 mph). He competed in the alpine skiing event at the 1984 winter paralympics and won three bronze medals. Mark Inglis became the first double amputee to climb the Mount Everest. What we learn from them is that even in adversity there are opportunities. We may not be responsible for many things that happen, but we are responsible for the way we react when that happens.
Concluding remarks
We tend to see improvement as a need in other people, but we do not see the same need in ourselves. That's why they say it is all right to be ignorant, but it's stupid to make a career out of ignorance. We should change with the times or else we will be a blank sheet.
Failures are divided between those who thought and never did and those who did and never thought. Many people are not failures. They just started at the bottom, and they liked it.
We should not subcontract our career. We should try and wow everybody.
We should not complain about the lack of resources. Mr Ramesh knows a vegetable vendor whose children have completed CA. He knows very impoverished people who today are making a mark in their life. There are many leaders who have done so much in one lifetime.
When we consider the distance they have traversed, it is truly amazing.
We should not be technology myopic. We should be curious and use technology extensively and keep trying out new gadgets.
We should take everybody along. We should not walk alone. Together we can succeed.
We must make an impact that matters. We should create our own rituals, design our own symbols of success and live our own stories. As Mahatma Gandhi once said, we must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Q&A
Mr Ramesh did not plan his journey in detail. He was a happy go lucky person who got admission to the OU College of Engineering. His sister was one of the first engineering students in the university. She told Mr Ramesh not to pursue engineering as it would involve a lot of hard work. So, Mr Ramesh joined BCom in Nizam College. He thought he was in the right course as there was not much to study.
But soon he began to focus on the CA. Those days, after completing CA, most people would go to the Middle East as the salaries were high. But he decided to stay back in India. He decided to model himself on far more capable and successful people. Interestingly, one of his role models was ICFAI founder, Mr NJ Yasaswy.
Mr Ramesh showed a lot of curiosity, went beyond his function and tried to understand what others were doing. He worked hard and moved into different roles. He continued to develop his technical excellence and became a part of regulatory and standards setting bodies. He took up social service. He began to work towards building a strong reputation both within and outside the organization. Passion, curiosity and hunger enabled his progress.
In the last few decades, we have seen tremendous advances in communication, technology and financial services. We may have missed earlier technology shifts. But in recent years, we have leapfrogged to the latest technologies. The use of Digi Yatra in the airports is a good example.
Many jobs have gone away but new jobs have been created. Manufacturing will grow but may not generate many jobs because of automation including robotics. But manufacturing can shape an ecosystem in which many jobs are created. Smartphones are a good example. Same is the case with ecommerce. Many services and entrepreneurial opportunities are emerging.
But there are some major concerns. We have the largest working age population. Many of them do not have the required skills. If we do not skill them, there will be social upheaval.
We must keep asking ourselves: What are we doing today? Will our skills be relevant tomorrow? We may have been a great typist once. But that is not relevant today.
We cannot predict the future, but we can observe the trends and prepare ourselves. It is unfortunate that in many computer science courses, outdated topics such as Charles Babbage are being covered. That is history and not technology.
Consider the Big 4. Deloitte is the biggest of them, with a revenue exceeding the GDP of many countries. How do we develop such financial services companies?
Mr Ramesh emphasised that government legislation and protectionism will only be barriers. We must expose our companies to global competition.
Our IT services industry is a good example. TCS, Wipro, Infosys, employ lakhs of people and compete with the global payers. They have succeeded with no government support or protectionism.
Our global capability centres are also a great example. They are doing cutting edge work for global companies. Recall the webinar by Ms Mamatha Madireddy on May 23.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xFwyNYqT6g
The Indian cricket team, till about 20-25 years back would struggle on foreign pitches. The team started doing well after the earlier approach of preparing home pitches that would help only spinners was reversed. Today, in the IPL, Indian cricketers get a chance to apply alongside the best players in the world and improve their skills. Foreign coaches are used to train our players. (It is unfortunate that we are not pursuing similar strategies for the Olympic games.)
Earlier the focus was on reviewing past performance and taking corrective action. Now it is about preparing for the future.
Consider the pharma industry. In the past, the industry would develop drugs to cure illnesses. Now, it is about preventing diseases like ageing, dementia, cancer. Drug development is a long and expensive process- molecule discovery, patents, clinical trials and regulatory approvals. Coming up with innovative drugs calls for actions today that will lead to results 10 years later. The boards should be focusing on such issues.
China is a good example. It has thought ahead and developed capabilities in APIs (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients) which are the building blocks of the pharma industry. The country has also amassed rare metal resources needed for the electric vehicles industry.
The key requirement is curiosity. There is no shortage of tools today. It is about how to use these tools and how to ask the right questions to generate meaningful insights. Mr Ramesh gave the example of the Sherlock Holmes story where the dog did not bark. It was by answering this question, that Sherlock Holmes solved the mystery. That is the mindset required in analytics. Today, technology can empower and transform people (even autorickshaw drivers) provided they know how to use it.
We must move our education system away from the recall of knowledge to the application of knowledge. Today, with information so easily accessible, remembering things is not important. Applying the knowledge is more important. Examinations should be designed accordingly. Asking students to write short notes does not make sense. We must instil curiosity in students.
Teachers must seek internships with the industry to acquire knowledge which goes beyond the textbooks. They must take part in professional development programs.
Today, industry funding for academic institutions is insignificant. We must improve the physical, tech and knowledge infrastructure of our institutions.
The syllabus should be revamped. There should be more emphasis on practical training. Visiting faculty should be invited from the industry.
All industry professionals should go back to their alma mater. They should not forget from where they began. It is important to remain connected with the institutions and help them to produce people like themselves. It is important to respect the professors who taught them. Mr Ramesh emphasised that ISR (individual social responsibility) is as important as CSR.
Qualifications alone do not mean anything. Satisfaction comes when we are wanted by clients. If we can provide clients value, we will feel satisfied. We must be able to deliver value. Gone are the days of billing based on hours. We must bill on the basis of value.
All of us have 24 hours. In this respect, we are all equal. As the famous lawyer, Mr Nani Palkiwalla once mentioned, time wasted is life wasted. Consider the Prime Minister of a country or a Fortune 500 CEO. How do they find the time? It is about prioritization.
It is important to keep updated. General knowledge is important. We should observe, absorb and adapt. We should not micromanage. We should be committed to continuous learning. Some professions like teaching and law are naturally suited for continuous learning.
We must evolve into leadership positions. Board positions cannot be solicited. It is not just about clearing an exam. We must develop a personal reputation by performing well in our chosen field. For this, networking is important. We must interact with the world outside. We must work towards personal eminence.
Frauds cannot be eliminated completely. In the digital world the possibility of fraud is greater. Board members can invest not more than 75 hours per year in a company (6 day long meetings in a year). So it is difficult for them to master everything. But they should be able to smell when something is going wrong like an unusual transaction with a shell company. Small thefts cannot be prevented. But large frauds can. That calls for curiosity and speaking out when we sense that something is not right.
Disaster prevention and disaster recovery are critical. Companies must address some key questions: Will the business come to a standstill overnight? In that case, are we ready? We must assume disruptions will happen and put in place a business continuity plan. We should prepare for different scenarios. If we are a pharma company, we must ask what will happen if we lose our license after say an FDA inspection. Do we have a plan B? Can we make for other customers in a different factory? If we are an airline, what will happen if there is a cloud strike?